KettWiesel early rim brakes - poor performance

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    • KettWiesel early rim brakes - poor performance

      Hi there

      Has anyone been able to improve the performance of the early rim brakes ?

      Mine have the plate on the outside of the wheel holding the brake block , this does not lock positively in position and either gets knocked into the wheel causing the brakes to bind if I hit an obstruction or moves slowly away from the wheel stopping the brakes working.

      Over time this has meant more and more distortion of the wheel from the one moving pad and less and less effective brakes.

      regards Paul
    • Hi Paul

      I think there is a good reason Hase moved away from this type of brakes years ago ...
      Probably the only thing yo can do is to make sure, the wheel is not bent as accurate as possible so that you are able to position the non-moving breakpad as close to the rim as possible.
      It might also be worth to replace the old brakepads, if they are already a couple of years old, as they become hard and lose some of their brakepower.
      Is it possible to provide a picture of your brake? I'm curious and it's hard to find good pictures of this type of brake on the Kettwiesel online
      Kettwiesel AL mit Rohloff und Differential
    • Stephan

      Thanks , I have sent this to Spawn , however it may help others ?

      [Blocked Image: http://s20.postimg.org/l3f6feojx/IM001814_text_labels.jpg]


      A is the arm that moves , however not by the cable moving ? you will
      see that is firmly anchored to the frame - no the outer moves up and
      down the inner moving the arm !




      B fixed arm , however it is only held by the same bolt holding the
      cable and if I hit something like a lamp post or bollard it will
      pivot around that bolt and apply the brakes for me - really not
      useful !




      C is the cable anchor and the stationary brake plate retainer and it
      was used to hold the rear mudguard mounting plate as well till I
      ditched that in favour of a cable tie !




      D is the frame member all this is attached to and as you can see is
      not at right angles to either the boom or the wheel further
      complicating matters ?




      now as the cable anchor has a lock nut below the frame to remove and
      re-fit say as a result of a puncture :-




      you need




      1 hand for spanner below frame


      1 hand for Allen tool above frame


      1 hand to hold brake plate in position


      1 hand to tension brake cable as clamp is tightened




      I make that 4 hands ?




      Also as only 1 pad moves the brakes depend upon the fixed plate
      being as close as it can get to the wheel , without anyway of
      setting this , and over the years the moving brake pad has deflected
      the wheel over to the non-moving pad and put a twist in the wheel
      that I cannot get out.




      This means the non-moving pad has to be further away from the wheel
      that is ideal and so the moving pad is expected to deflect the wheel
      further and further just making matters worse.




      When I first got the trike it was unrideable for various reasons and
      I found the brake plates on the outside underneath the arms and not
      on top :-

      [Blocked Image: http://s20.postimg.org/si4i7safh/side_view_brake.jpg]

      This cause the brake shoe on the outside to be considerably below
      the brake shoe on the inside , so I moved them above the arms this
      may be wrong ?



      I also hired a trike with brakes like this :-

      [Blocked Image: http://s20.postimg.org/zb4v4218t/Pauls_Bike_001_sm.jpg]
      this actually looks better than mine as the outside brake cannot
      change it's distance from the wheel when it has been set up [ unlike
      mine ] however I do not know which brakes came first ?



      If you want larger pictures or further one's please ask.

      regards Paul
    • Thanks for the pictures!

      A: Correct, but that doesn't matter. Even on a normal bike both parts move. It's just a matter of perspective. Of course that indicates that the outer part needs to be long enough to be able to move easily.
      B: Probably nothing you can do here but riding carefully. It was changed in later models as you found out. (I assume that the version you had on the hired bike is the newer one)
      Turning the non moving part around looks correct from my point of view.
      You really need to get the twist out of the wheel. If this is not possible anymore the rim and spokes need to be replaced. Otherwise you have no chance to get decent brake power. The distance between the non moving brakepad and the ring most be as short as possible, not more than 1 or 2 mm I would say. And it need's to be corrected as the brakepad wears off.

      To reduce the number of necessary hands by one you can pull the brake and hold it in position with some velcro.
      Also, in case of a puncture, you could try to get the tube out and in via the moving brake arm. If you loose the cable there might be enough space.
      Kettwiesel AL mit Rohloff und Differential
    • I was sort of hoping someone had made a better piece than the pressed steel bracket that causes most of my problems ?

      I may try to copy the design shown in the last picture.

      I could try and add a removable arm that would mount a stud for a normal moving brake arm.

      However this will be very hard to implement as v brakes are not handed and so one set would either have the cable entering from outside of the wheel OR one set will have to be under the existing brake arm/stud ?

      They collect a lot of crud as they are on top of the frame without being mounted underneath.

      regards Paul
    • What do you mean by "v brakes are not handed"? Do you mean that they have a "left" and a "right" arm? But in that case there must alrady a solution for this for your current setup.
      Anyway, have you thought about Magura HS-11/33? They are symetric and meybe you can use a "firmtech" connection on the outer sides of the Kettwiesel?
      Kettwiesel AL mit Rohloff und Differential
    • Hi

      The arms currently on it are steel and have been drilled by me to take some old side pull calliper cable stops , non of the V brakes I have would allow the cable anchor to be on the opposite arm.

      On normal V brakes the cable always enters from the same side whether they are fitted to the front or rear on a bicycle.

      So if fitted to the Kett and looking down on them the cable would enter from the left at so at the rear left wheel the cable would be outside the trike footprint ?

      I have some Magura hydraulic rim brakes , the problem they have is that the pipe work would be facing forward putting it about 15cm from the brake lever on the handle bars so making it impossible to make a pipe connection that could cope with the swing of the handle bars ?

      regards Paul
    • Okay, I didn't know the original brakes were lost. But anyway you should be able to just keep the brakes you have.

      For Magura: There is a 90 degree fitting kit you could use. Or you connect the calliper on the outer side, the you have more space to route the hose.
      Kettwiesel AL mit Rohloff und Differential